In the days since Stoke’s very disappointing second half collapse and ultimate 2-2 draw at home to Wolves at the weekend, I’ve been amazed to hear a number of Stoke fans advocating the dropping of club captain Abdoulaye Faye from Tony Pulis’s side. It’s staggering how fickle some people are. Last season, Faye was absolutely superb and took a clean sweep of the player of the season awards given both officially and unofficially by various people and groups. He also made a bright start to this season, yet after one bad result, which admittedly came about as a result of poor defending from set pieces for which Faye must be blamed, there are those saying that he is no longer up to the job.
For me, the Senegalese centre back has always been outstanding in a Stoke shirt. He’s immensely physically strong and quick, his pace at the back being a real asset to the team, while he’s good in the air and generally an impeccable tackler. He also chips in with his fair share of goals. There has, without doubt, been a slight, but noticeable, decline in the level of his performances, but what footballer doesn’t go through the occasional dip in form in his career? If everybody were dropped the moment they had a bad game the league would be full of unfit, unconfident players who would have reduced chance to build up understandings with their teammates.
We should also remember that with just thirteen goals conceded from eleven league games so far this season, our defensive record is pretty good; only seven teams have conceded fewer, and without our 4-0 drubbing at Liverpool on the second day of the season, we would have conceded the second smallest number of goals in the division, behind only table-topping Chelsea. That statistic is particularly impressive when you consider the fact that a number of those seven teams have played a game fewer than us.
In the light of that, to suggest that radical change in the defence is needed is foolish. For me, however, a re-shuffle would not go amiss, but it is not Faye that would make way, rather Danny Collins, who, since his £2.75 million signing from Sunderland two months ago has failed to make a particularly positive impression in a Stoke shirt to date. I’d go as far as to suggest that a high proportion of the times when Faye has been caught out recently have arisen when he has been forced to move over to the left to cover Collins. This would explain why we saw no such problems with Danny Higginbotham in the side last season, and also why Faye’s form has dropped of in recent weeks after a good start to the campaign.
Another summer signing, Robert Huth, has impressed playing out of position at right back. He’ll return from suspension for our next game, at Hull on Sunday, and Pulis will be sure to want to put him straight back into the back four. This will probably mean that the tenacious home-grown full back Andy Wilkinson will be dropped from the side. In the eyes of me and many Stoke fans, on last season’s showings and those games he has played this season, he’s well worth a place in the starting eleven. The answer for me therefore, would be to put Huth in at left back, or indeed Wilkinson at left back and Huth on the right, and drop Collins to the bench. Do that and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Faye’s game return sharply to its brilliant best.
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November 3rd, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Alex, I don’t think it is anything to do with Saturday’s result that some fans are calling for Abdy to be rested. He has looked below his brilliant best for several matches and Saturday’s game was simply his worst display in a poor run. To me he doesn’t look fit (and I don’t mean he isn’t “Stoke fit” I mean he isn’t fit) he looks to be carrying an injury. TP apparently asked him if he needed to be subbed during the game and he (warrior that he is) said no.
I think it would be best for the team (and for Abdy) if he was rested next Sunday with Huth taking his place alongside Ryan. We don’t have another match for two weeks and this would give him a chance to sort out what is wrong. No one will be happier than me if he is able to take his place against Portsmouth and is back to his brilliant best.
No player should be guaranteed to start every game. The biggest players at the biggest clubs get rested or put on the bench from time to time. Why should it be any different for Abdoulaye? The ONLY determining factors should be a) is there a problem which needs sorting? and b) is there someone who can step into the breach and do a good job? In this case I’d say we can answer “yes” on both counts.
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Incidentally, I think you need to correct your statement that we signed Collins two years ago!
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I dont think its the fault of Collins. Collins had a great first half against wolves and like the rest of the team a mare of a second. Personally I thought collins was having to cover for faye on numerous occasions in the wolves match, through faye being out of position. Against spurs he was brilliant and I dont recall him having a bad game against west ham. I think hes gradually improved since what was a poor game at the reebok capped by that crazy tackle on ricketts. I think an interesting theory is that etheringtons recent improvement has come about in part due to presence of collins, hes seeing more of the ball and collins is always there supporting him or overlapping. Higgy would be spraying the ball across to delap or on to beatties head 9 times out of 10. I fully agree with your main point though, there is no way that faye should be dropped. I cant see why we should disrupt what is potenially one of the best cb partnerships outside of the sky 4.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I tend to agree with stokerambler Collins is freeing Ethrington up and is a much better option on the left .I had my reservations about him in the first few games he played for us but since then he has improved week upon week.Give him a chance I think he’s a good player and a definite improvement on Higgy’s sometimes hit and hope game.As for Faye don’t think he’s been bang on form now for a few games(bar the Spurs game),I think he’s a class act but perhaps he could do with a rest just to get his edge back.Hull away is possibly the one away game where we could do this and get away with it.Faye is an integral part of our team but somethings not quite right(sooner would be better than later).What’s happenning with the ginga ninja and TP one minuite flavour of the month next annonamous?Arismendi comming along niceley a start before christmas?Not gonna even bother wasting any words about our invisible superstar,fed up of speculating.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Interesting comments.
For me, players in bad form, particularly bad form coming off of prolonged excellent form should be allowed to play through it if possible. The recent games without Huth have made me think that Wilkinson should be starting regularly, and for me the weak link in the defence is Collins, not Faye, so Collins dropping out would be the easiest way to facilitate this.
I hadn’t considered the idea that Collins coming in has freed up Etherington, and to an extent I agree with it, Higginbotham is renowned for his less than pretty distribution, and Collins does tend to play a better ball ahead of the man, allowing a fast break forward (as does Diao whose return I think has also helped.)
All that being said, Faye will be 32 in February, and Shawcross and Huth are 22 and 25 respectively. I expect that we’ll lose Shawcross at some point, but hopefully not for a while yet, so as Abdoulaye ages we seem to have a natural pairing coming through there. I’d also like to see increased involvement for Ryan Shotton next season and beyond. He’s been getting rave reviews at Barnsley and seems capable of stepping up to Premier League level.
As for Arismendi Welshie, he’s looking better with every game in the reserves, he scored a late winner against Chelsea last night, but the view of the coaches seems to be that he’s not quite with the pace for first team matches yet. He was always going to be a buy for the future, and considering he’s still very young and has just completely uprooted his life and moved half way across the world we can’t expect too much too soon. I’d like to see some involvement this season though.
With Kitson I’m sure you’ve read all the rumours about him and TP falling out. It does seem hard on him that he just gets going then is dropped, but prior to Wolves Fuller was playing very well and Beattie is back scoring, so it’s hard to justify leaving either of those two out.
That’s part of the reason why we’ve not been seeing more of Tuncay, though he hardly made an impact when he came on on Saturday though. He needs more gametime to make an impact though, he was bright when he came on at Spurs, but seemed to be short on sharpness, that shot he dragged etc.
Thanks for the tip John.
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:32 pm
The biggest problem for me in the substitutions on Saturday was not who came on but when they came on. I’d have brought Tuncay on when Beattie went off. The brief glimpse of Tuncay and Fuller together at the Blackpool game suggested that they might be a promising partnership. At the same time I’d have brought Liam on for either delap or Whitehead. That would have upped the creativity and might have produced the goal we needed. I only have brought Mama on for the last few minutes if Fuller wasn’t thought to be able to last the game.
I understand that Kitson had a falling out with Reid during the week in training and I’m sure that is why he was not even on the bench. Much as I think he was unlucky to be dropped a few weeks back, if he really is disrupting training then I doubt if he has much of a future at Stoke and I’d expect he might leave in January.
Finally, Arismendi. Although he played as a holding midfielder for his club and for his country, his range of passing seems far superior to that of any other player we have apart, possibly, from Lawrence. Given that Pulis is happy to play two defensive midfielders in central midfield I could easily see Arismendi (before too many months have passed) playing just in front of a pure holding midfielder like Diao (or even Abdy Faye!). That would give TP the solid central midfield he loves whilst upping the creative passing to a level we have not seen for a while.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:21 am
If what Lakeland is saying is true about the Ginga Ninja then he definitley won’t be here this time next year.Last years debacle was bad enough but comming back from Reading seemed to change his attitude,his pre season form was good and his appology made me think that this year was going to be his year.We all remember that t**t Bangura and how he buggered team spirit up for us and if Kitson and his ego don’t calm down then he can leave and seek his fortunes else where like Sammy did.P.s where is he now? I also think that Rory should take a back seat role this season,Lawrence down the right is a much better attacking threat.lawrence down the wing on Saturday from the start would have been more of a problem to Wolves.Rory on as a sub when the game was safe to reinforce our defence would have been a sound move.Delap is always a good options against the tougher teams but against a team like Wolves palying him on the right wing just invites pressure he’s got little pace and is not as creative as Liam.I see Delap as more of a center mid than a right winger and I think he would Flurish in partnership with any of our midfeilders(except Whitehead).I really hope that Diao is fit for Sunday.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I think also Faye has been troubled by the purchase of Huth. Huth as a traditional central defender naturally drifts into the middle and takes up some of the positions that Faye used to. I think he isn’t dealing well enough with the fact that he isn’t the top dog anymore.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
I cant see the purchase of huth being too much of problem for faye on the pitch as they operate in different areas. If Huth was drifiting that far out of position I would be concerned. Hopefully the captaincy and the huge support he has from the fans can reassure him that he is very much the top dog! Even if he is having a rough patch, he’ll always be a hero for what he did last season.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Good, debate-provoking article VJ. Obviously I can’t contribute too much to the deabte, having only seen brief highlights of Stoke this season, but Huth has played for some high-profile clubs like Chelsea, so is no mug and he knows what he is doing. With reagrds to team selection, Pulis, like so many other managers, will take the easy option probably and bring in the German for Wilkinson. It will be interesting to watch on Sunday, or alternatively, I might find something constructive to do with my life instead of watching Hull ‘v’ Stoke!
November 4th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Just thought i’d tell anyone who’s interested Bangura is now at Pannerserikos(?)in Greece.marvelous thing wikipedia isn’t it.